Oh boy

[elusivek]

Oh boy. Imagine going to bed thinking all is well then waking up to an LJ message from a friend you always thought was cool and pretty mature (because of certain life circumstances) berating you for a few things, but seemingly specifically, the trigger, was for a word I used in a post. And then promptly not just unfriended, but possibly blocked or something, because I couldn't even send a reply. Geez.

I've already deleted the message, because, why keep an eyesore, but I'd still like to address a few things that was berated about me.

1. The use of the word "spinster".
If there's a secondary, underlying, no-good meaning to this word, then I'm sorry for using it. But as I learned the English language, this is the word for an unmarried woman who's past the usual marriage age. Does it have a derogatory meaning? I am not aware. Somewhere in their diatribe, they kept saying about "me and my sis still living with mom and not married." And saying "spinster" is such an antiquated word. Were they annoyed that I seemed to be using the word spinster to for others? You know what? I'm 40, my sis is 44. We are both very well on the way to being considered as spinsters in less than 20 years time. The context of using that word was to explain the situation of why my Mom was so insistent of including a friend, who wasn't married, is 80-something years old, and has not many family members that take her out.

2. I claim to be "well adjusted", but I'm just childish.
I will still claim to be well adjusted in the life experience that I have lived in this small city. I'm a functioning member of society, pay taxes, do not steal, do not cheat, pay my bills on time. Heck, go to the Identity Service Department and get a Criminal Record sheet on me and it's empty. Yep. I don't even have a parking ticket. I'd say I'm well adjusted.

As for childish. WHEN have I ever claimed I'm not childish? I'm the eptinome of childish.

3. I'm still living with the parents so I have a problem (or something along those lines)
I thought about this one and while they do have merit addressing this, but it's still part of my circumstance.
Number one: I am not living in the US. I know, in the US, the thing is to kick your kids out at 16 or 18 or whatnot. This is Asia. Culturally, kicking your kids out is not a thing. In fact, to us, the Americans are heartless for kicking their kids out. If you want your kids out, why have kids in the first place?

Before I go further, can I just make it clear I hold no ill contempt to the US people. I'm just trying to explain how I am understanding this..... thing or whatever this person is berating of me.

Number two: I've written about it multiple times before, and I'll write about it again. Yes. I earn well enough to be able to live the life I want, go on the vacations i want, splurge here and there. No, I do not earn well enough to be able to afford my own apartment or whatever form of living abode. (Here's to using antiquated words!). If I maybe get married, and my partner earns the same amount as I do, then maybe, I would be able to afford an apartment that's half the size of my parent's place and pay the mortgage for the next 40 years.

Did I say somewhere I'm 40? So in 40 years, I'd possibly be dead. Nah. I'll continue to stay at home.

Number three: which is really the real shining reason: The dogs. If I were to move out, can I bring the dogs with me? Very likely no, rentals don't allow pets. Even if I could, the parents would reject the idea. The thought that "they love the pets more than they love me" seems to hold true (I say that in jest of course). And can I just leave the pets with the parents? No, because they can't physically care of the dogs. The Frenchie can easily overpower Mom. The Mutt is now not-mobile and neither Mom nor Dad are able to physically carry him for his potty and walking practice/muscle training.

So yeah. I'm still living with the parents.

Have I ever lived apart from my parents? Yes. Even though it was short, I did spend 3 months in Europe. Two in Lisbon doing an internship and one in Austria while Sis was out there in her 7-year abroad stint. Do I continuously go on holidays without the parents, and am able to handle myself without calling home for help? Not once did I ever call them for help. Have the parents gone on prolonged holidays and left us alone for months on end? Yes, and wow, in one of these "left alone" trips, I got appendicitis, got hospitalized, went under the knife, came out, all alone and have I bemoaned my misfortune? Not one word. I believe I'm capable of living apart from the parents given the chance.

I hate to be stereotypical, but right this moment, this person's... act of "imposing their cultural norms and using those to judge me" is just so.... stereotypically American.

And yes, I'm childish for "talking back and trying to justify," but heeeeeyyyyyyyy I believe, in American, this is called "Standing up for yourself!"

*** I mean no disrespect to anyone of any nationality and cultural background. I'm just particularly annoyed and hurt at the sudden harsh monologue diatribe I received. Their whole, "this is how I think, I think in the way that I like to think, so I am right and you are wrong, so I cannot be friends with you anymore." I'm like, chill man.

If I want to be mean, I could be mean and I had wanted to write something about their being so sensitive to the word spinster. But I'll be nice and refrain. But trust me, it's implied.

Comments

[jo]

Spinster is considered derogatory because it implies that a woman is a failure because she's never (or not yet) married, or that she's unlikely to ever marry (too ugly or fat or whatever -- no man (or woman) will ever want her!!). Since women are now free to live their lives as they please (more or less), including not marrying, or marrying later in life (I was 40 when I got married), spinster shouldn't be used. Just say you're single, or not in a relationship (because one can be in a committed relationship, but not bother with the whole marriage thing).

[elusivek]

thanks for explaining that nicely. I wonder if the offensive connotation is geographical or cultural as well? When I learned the word at school (I even recall it was in literature class), it was simply a noun to describe a person. Being that I'm able to admit I'm well on my way to be one is proof enough that I was not aware of the offensive nature of the word.

[jo]

When I learned the word at school (I even recall it was in literature class), it was simply a noun to describe a person.

If it was during literature class, were you studying 18th/19th century authors? Because certainly during that time period, women's value/success in life was largely contingent on marrying. So yes, in that context, it was a normal way to describe an unmarried woman (who had failed to do the thing society expected of her and get married at an appropriate [for childbearing] age!!).

The now derogatory connotation may very well be more of a Western anglo-sphere thing. I would argue it's not unrelated to the move to do away with courtesy titles (Mr./Mrs/Miss/etc) in business practice. Because there's only one option for dudes (Mr.) and it doesn't reveal anything about their marital status, which is 99.9% of the time irrelevant, whereas there are three options for women (Mrs., Miss and Ms) two of which clearly reveal their marital status, and the third indicates they're "one of THOSE" (feminist). I really hate it when I have to choose one of those titles. I am married, but I kept my own name rather than take my husband's last name. So "Mrs. McNair" sounds wrong to me -- that was my mom. But I'm not "Mrs. Aldridge" either. And as I said, my marital status is irrelevant, so just use my name!

[elusivek]

If it was during literature class, were you studying 18th/19th century authors?
Possibly, though I don't remember exactly which book/author it was... probably either one of the Brontes, Jane Austen or George Elliot

whereas there are three options for women (Mrs., Miss and Ms) two of which clearly reveal their marital status, and the third indicates they're "one of THOSE" (feminist).
specifically on the "indicates they're one of THOSE" ... why is it in the Western culture that people react in such extremes... I'm starting to be afraid and wary to voice any opinions (opinions and word usage seem to easily anger them). Here, the Mrs, Miss, and Ms is simply.... Mrs for a woman you're absolutely sure she's married, Miss for girls, usually those under 16 or 18, and Ms for everyone else, or when you are not sure if they are married or not. edit to add: so to be on the safe side, and also in business letters.... just call all women Ms.

My Mom also kept her own name. Her reason: "I have my own name, why do I have to take your dad's?" She'll respond if someone calls her Mrs. *Dad's surname* but on paper and documents and self introductions she simply says her own name.

I wonder if it's partially how the Chinese language/culture goes too. From the Chinese people that I know, most just keep using their own names, but would acknowledge and respond to being called "Mrs. *Husband's name*" Some do the equivalent of hyphenating their surnames, but the children are always with just the dad's surname.

It's a wonder why in my family my mom did not take my dad's surname but has done the hyphenating combining thing so I have both my mom's surname and dad's surname (and thus an overly long and clunky name when forms give such narrow spaces for names!)

I have one friend (though she's not entirely Chinese) that expressed "I really want to take my husband's name!" and that's cool too. However, she had a lot of trouble when she divorced to swap back to her own name, then remarried and took the new husband's name. I'm not saying she's going to divorce a second time, I just mean, she's gone through the painful process of name changing once... she's still willing to do that again... I guess if I ever do get married, I'd just be like my mom... I have my own name.

[bingo_a]

why is it in the Western culture that people react in such extremes... I'm starting to be afraid and wary to voice any opinions (opinions and word usage seem to easily anger them).

Hah, been asking myself that question for the last ten years anyway. ~~words~~are~~violence~~ lmao there's just no gray area for people here anymore istg.

[gilda_elise]

Spinster is an antiquated word, but so what? So your "friend" is getting on your case for using it, and then turns around and says you have a problem for still living with your parents? Oh, please. Talk about being childish. Or about the person actually being a friend.

And kicking kids out when they reach maturity isn't really a thing in the US anymore. Lots of young adults still live with their parents. And even when you were expected to leave once you graduated, it was because you were considered an adult, and expected to be able to take care of yourself, by yourself. Your parents had done their job.

But it's different now from when I got to that age. There were good paying jobs one could be hired for right out of high school, where you didn't need a degree (truthfully, a lot of the jobs that they want you to have one now, you don't really need one.) Rents were cheap. Or, like me, you moved out with a couple of friends. Though there were still times when dinner was a shared can of corn. We lived in an older duplex. Not sure they exist anymore. And cars were cheaper, so most young adults had one. Actually, just about everything seemed to be cheaper.

[elusivek]

Thank you. I've since understood that there is an offensive side to the word, but as I said, I never learned of the word being offensive, simply as a noun to describe a person.

Will there be a day when "widow" is offensive and we can only go around say something like "she who her partner is unalive now."

Indeed, during the SARS fiasco 20 or so years ago, property prices had dropped unbelievably low but the parents did not buy as they already had this apartment and one in Lisbon, Portugal. If they had, we'd be very well off as property prices have gone up, easily 10 times. Anyway, the past is in the past, no use crying over spilled milk.